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Bethenny Frankel hooked up with Ellen DeGeneres on her show to demonstrate making vegan cupcakes with vegan cream cheese frosting.

“I always try to do the vegan thing first because it is healthier,” Frankel says. “And you feel good about yourself.”

Frankel feels a little better about herself for shunning refined sugars and flours as well. Instead of white flour and white sugar, Bethenny opts for raw sugar and oat flour.

“It’s not a racist thing,” Frankel jokes. “Go against white–when baking.”

Not to mention many white sugars aren’t technically vegan, as these are often processed with animal bone char. Other Frankel suggestions include making your cupcake portion sizes like A cup breasts versus D cups. You’ll have to watch the clip for that full explanation.

Why is it a good idea to stay away from white when eating? Dr. Michael Roizen of the Cleveland Clinic, explains.

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